Podcast: Today's Thought: Israel & Palestine

05/23/2011

8 Comments

 
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Today's thought of the day engages potential peace in the Middle East, the global nature of peace, and President Obama's remarks concerning Israel's 1967 borders. 
Enjoy this 10 minute thought. 
Rumps
 


Comments

Darlene
05/23/2011 13:00

How did you ignore the fact that the Palestinians are DISPOSSESSED? Why is that always ignored? You just blathered on for 10 minutes without EXPLAINING why the Palestinians won't take these horrible peace deals. No one would! There were 700,000 Palestinians who were expelled and now there are 5 million homeless, stateless proud people living in hovels. Research the Nakba please. The right of return must be a part of any peace process.

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Zac Bailes link
05/23/2011 13:22

First, Darlene, let me say, "Thanks!" for listening to my10 minutes of blabbering - that's truly a skill.

Second, let us not look past the point that I am indeed calling for a return to the 1967 borders. The solution requires a two-state establishment, and the UN needs to enforce the 1967 resolution. Moreover, the United States has done a horrible job highlighting the plight of the Palestinians - that I'll easily concede. In fact, the only President that has actively engaged the Palestinians is Jimmy Carter.

Finally, if you want to do the "right of return" you must detail how you plan to keep the peace.

I don't mind your disagreeing with me, I mind you lacking a constructive plan of peace that is sustainable and mutually satisfactory. I work with Palestinians and Muslims day in and day out to educate people on the challenges in the Middle East. I know well the difficulties and what is at stake. Because I know that, I know that until we are willing to work towards something mutually beneficial there will be no progress.

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Darlene
05/23/2011 14:00

The ethnic cleansing was the plan of Zionism to begin with, so until Israel is willing to admit their crimes, allow some portion of the refugees to return, and compensate the others, there will never be peace. You cannot kill my father and take my land and home and just say "that was all in the past". There has to be justice. The map you posted tells the tale. There will never be a Palestinian state because Israel will continue her arrogant oppression and stealing which is funded by our taxes, Zac. There will be one state eventually with a majority Muslim population because an apartheid state is not sustainable.

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Artemis
05/23/2011 14:04

Darlene - You have to be `possessed` before you can be `dispossessed.` Palestinians largely did not own land and Palestine was not a country.

Speaking of being expelled, Mirahi Jews were expelled from Arab and Muslim countries by the hundreds of thousands.

If the Muslim countries gave a damn about the Palestinians, they could used the space the made by expelling the Miriahi and the assets they stole from the Mirahi to make the Palestinians welcome.

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Darlene
05/23/2011 14:34

Artemis,
Palestinians DID own the land. Who do you think you are deceiving? I know Joan Peters book of lies has been debunked.

Zionism had quite a hand in the expulsion of Jews from countries where they had lived in complete peace and prosperity for centuries. There have been many Jews who have said they were expelled, but agreed to come to the new Jewish state -- only to find they were treated as 2nd class citizens and many still are!

Come on Artemis, none of your deflection covers for the crimes of the Nakba and the continued settlements. We are not the usual ignorant Christian Zionists you guys are accustomed to snookering.

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Darlene
05/23/2011 14:37

should have said "weren't expelled, but agreed to come"

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Winterboy link
05/24/2011 12:47

Artemis, you may want to read Israeli historian/professor Ilan Pappe's, "Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine":

http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851684670

Here's one way the dispossession continues today, in clear violation of international law:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/exposed-the-truth-about-israels-land-grab-in-the-west-bank-2020110.html

In the words of Israelis themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txhSHd-7GZw

I agree with that peace requires listening, but listening only to the Rightwing government's line isn't the kind of listening we need to be doing.

"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country...God promised it to us, but how could that interest them?...They see but one thing: we have come and stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" David Ben Gurion

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Jasdye link
05/25/2011 13:07

Zach,

To be honest, returning to the 1967 borders is the <i>LEAST</i> that Israel can do for the Palestinians. However, it is possible and preferable that Israel shares land, resources, and political power with Palestinians.

Darlene makes her point well. 5,000,000 people need a home. They've been violently uprooted from their homes (and what kind of bu!!sh*2 argument is to say that they didn't have legal access to their own land? Sounds like the same arguments some use against them Injuns losing their lands). A two-state solution is not enough, especially with one of those states having all the control and resources.

http://leftcheek.blogspot.com/2011/05/shalom-shall-not-come-without-justice.html

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